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Characters with the same name
August 22, 2013 at 1:39pm
Just curious if there are any plans on making it easier to distinguish between characters with the same name, such as changing the names of copies or perhaps numbering them. I know most of the characters with the same name can be distinguished just by their appearance, such as a vegeta in saiyan armor vs spandex or a small version, but there are those that have literally the same exact appearance as well. For example, to my knowledge, the multiple some versions of ash all have the same appearance and the only discernible difference is how they enter the match (such as via car, spinning uppercut, falling from lightning, etc). Now I know you may say that memorizing literally all of the copies and how to tell them apart is part of the game, but I personally think that you should be able to know with certainty who it is you're betting on. Upsets and money loss should come from legitimate upsets and good matches, not just because you bet on a character not realizing it's not actually who you thought it was. And more importantly, it makes a lot of the stats quite pointless because it just lumps all of the characters with the same name together. So when I look at Vegeta and see 115 matches played, 62 wins, 53 losses.. the only thing I'm really learning is that out of the 6+ characters going by the name of Vegeta, they've got a pretty even win/loss ratio. I don't care if the difference is something as subtle as Drdoom vs Dr. doom vs Dr.doom just so long as there is a difference. Just my two cents though.
August 22, 2013 at 1:51pm
Agreed! The only thing I like about it are the upsets and Saltiness of the stream viewers HAHA! SLAMMED.
August 22, 2013 at 2:04pm
Yeah, the only helpful thing about the stats in those cases are that if I see somebody with 40+ matches played, I can be pretty certain there are at least 2 or more characters roaming around with that name. Then I just generally don't bet much, unless there's some unique feature or trait they have that sets them apart. Which was working decently, till about an hour or so ago when I lost 100k lol because I didn't pay close enough attention to how many matches a char had. I'll make it back shortly enough though, so that's not why I think it should be changed. Just think it would be an overall quality of life improvement for the site.
August 22, 2013 at 2:06pm
The two purple Shuma Goraths cost me a fortune.
August 22, 2013 at 2:12pm
Yeah, I used to in my notes mark down the color of clothing or skin or w/e that a char had where I put their description, but I learned recently that apparently you can't tell copies apart by that necessarily. Apparently a lot of characters just have an alternate coloring (I assume meant for if they're facing themself) that it just randomly decides to use. So I've had to switch over to things they say or how they enter the match to try telling them apart.
August 22, 2013 at 6:52pm
The alternating colors are decided by if they are Player 1 or Player 2
August 22, 2013 at 7:00pm
Personally I like to never be certain on what I am getting, the thrill I get when I bet on a lousy character and win is unbeatable!
August 22, 2013 at 9:25pm
Well, you could achieve the same by just closing your eyes pre-fight and blindly betting lol. But for most, I think the point is actually being able to learn the characters and the matchups, and the fact that there are stats supports that. So the cases where there are characters with the same name kind of interferes with that. It's not as if knowing who you're betting on means there will never be any upsets. As it is, it's basically just a cheap and artificial way to produce "upsets" by simply misleading people who weren't aware there's more than one of a character going by that name... Besides, just as much as it can be an annoyance to those who want to take the game seriously, it's just as much of a hindrance to new players. And from what I've heard, making the game more new-user friendly has been a focus as well.
August 25, 2013 at 10:59pm
Just lost 300k because Cherry added a fake Kanna with the same name. Trap characters are not fucking cool.
August 25, 2013 at 11:24pm
Did he admit to it? I saw the gimp fight, that was messed up.
August 25, 2013 at 11:19pm
sponge bob vs. lord ravenous never 4get
August 25, 2013 at 11:25pm
He admitted it alright.
August 25, 2013 at 11:27pm
How long before he adds a fake rare akuma with a slighty different shade of colour that bankrupts everyone, complete joke.
August 26, 2013 at 12:25am
I cannot directly add any characters myself, Only salty can do that, all I can do is send salty characters which he then chooses which to put into the roster. Trap characters in some cases are indeed intended, Just as salty nerfed the blob and nobunga when they had very high stats and very high win loss records. The fake kanna looks abit different to the "real" kanna. The real kanna has a MRF and GRF meter , the fake kanna has no meter. Rony lost his 7 million on a nerfed 25-0 patchouli, upsets and change seem to be part of what saltybet is about.
August 26, 2013 at 3:16am
Upsets and change are fine, but I'll always be of the mind that purposely misleading the betters is wrong and counterintuitive. It's just a cheap and fake way to simulate "upsets" rather than having legitimate ones occur (as they do). Betters should always know who it is they're betting on and have accurate information represented to them. You can say, "Well, this is just a game." but that's not at all conductive to the success of this site either. Game or not, people will and want to take it seriously, which is exactly what you want to happen as well. With thousands of characters, it's no "easy" task to learn all of the matchups and accurately place them all, and there are plenty of real fights, real upsets, and real competition without having to also misinform betters. Not only do I think that it's in everyones' best interest, new and old players alike, for there to not be any identical names, but I also think there should be some sort of news section/live feed for it to be noted whenever any character is changed (nerfed, buffed, "fixed", etc.)
August 26, 2013 at 1:51pm
I agree with what your saying and I think you are right, Purposely misleading betters frustrated me to the maximum early on as I was repeatedly hit by changed characters and Undefeatable characters, Being a competitive person I want to reach number 1 and from the man hours Ive put in (currently most games bet on of all salty bet users)I do take it seriously. Salty bet wants to take this in a different direction of shadow buffs and shadow nerfs, fake and real characters, I fully respect that, Its his system. Out of the 333 characters I sent to salty I believe 2 are trap characters, Now I could be wrong but I think this is what salty wanted and if not he wouldn't of added them in the first place.
August 26, 2013 at 2:53pm
By all means, it's Salty's rodeo and he can run it how he wants to. I just hope that if that is indeed his intention that he reconsiders for what I believe to be the best interest of the site. Take, for example, the dreaded auto-balance. I can only assume the overall intention of it was to make the game more new-user friendly, help combat skewed odds that will only continue to inflate, etc. Those may all be good goals, but it was definitely a bad way to go about it for many reasons (such as punishing experienced players, encouraging bad gameplay like always betting low on the underdog, etc.). Now, on the other hand, you have ideas such as cash sinks (things to spend salty bucks on) and ladder resets. These both help combat the same problems but literally have almost no negative side effects. The cash sinks will help increase somebody's enjoyment of the site while also removing money from the economy and therefore fighting inflation, which will by extension give new players better chance to make more money on bets and be more competitive. It's beneficial for both new and experienced players. Ladders, similarly, do the same thing by giving the competitive players a new chance to restart and battle with each other again while also allowing new players the chance to get in on the action, and effectively resetting the economy as well (of course your old money should still be able to be spent on things and your records for previous seasons should be shown). Now I believe that unique names for characters, so they can be easily discerned from each other, falls into the same category as money sinks and ladders in that it's beneficial for old and new players alike with no real consequences. It makes the game more accessible to the inexperienced who aren't aware there is more than one version of a character and may become frustrated by what seems like random A.I. or rigged matches, and it allows veterans to focus on more important things like actually learning the match ups, keeping their tier lists and perfecting them, and making their bets in time without worrying about the fact they didn't get a chance to see if the character's ears are half an inch lower on their head or not.. (It also ensures you wont lose long-time players when they bet a couple mil on a trap and lose it all, not knowing a new fake was implemented.) And, between cash sinks and ladder resets being implemented to fight inflation, there will literally be no need whatsoever to "trap" or scam players out of their hard-earned cash.
August 26, 2013 at 3:08pm
A ladder reset or currency reset would not solve much I believe. I would still make it in the top 5 after a day or so, Due to my superior match up knowledge and activity on saltybet, There would In my opinion also need to be new variable added such as auto balance, new roster entrants or team play in addition to a reset. With some people basing there entire betting strategy purely off statistics the characters with the same name such as sakura, cammy, raiden and a few others make this not foolproof. People can use statistics accurately for over 95% of the matches shown the 5% were you cant promotes learning and responsible betting. To me its far more infuriating when I lost on the blob after he went from top to bottom tier in the blink of an eye.
August 26, 2013 at 3:28pm
I'm not against new roster entrants or team play or anything of the sort, that's all fine. But the ladder reset isn't meant to solve the "problem" of more experienced players rising to the top again. It's meant to remove the stagnant state of the game where nobody has a chance to catch back up. You don't need to punish experienced players to prevent them from proving once again they're amongst the best. In any game with ladder resets, the best players almost always make it back up within the top, but the point is that newer players who have become experienced can as well. So it both allows new players the chance to become experienced and have a fighting chance while also resetting the economy.
August 26, 2013 at 3:31pm
For example, I came along well after you, squall, etc. While I intend to make it into the millions and within the top 50+, the likelihood of me ever actually catching up to any of the top several placed players, apart from you quitting or deciding to all-in on something stupid, is nearly nonexistent. That turns off a lot of new players from deciding to be serious about the game. On the other hand, should there be a ladder reset, I believe I'd have a good chance of competing with you guys.
August 26, 2013 at 3:37pm
But on the matter of the same-named characters and relying on statistics, as I said in another thread relying purely on statistics is actually a very bad strategy. Win/loss ratio is very deceptive and should never by itself be used to make your betting decisions. A mid tier character that has only been matched up against high or god tiers may have a record of 5/10 or 5/15, but that doesn't make them worse than a low tier character who has only been randomized against other low or trash tier characters and has a record of 10-5. However, people will bet on the one with the better record regardless. That's where keeping your own notes, tier-list, etc. will allow the actual experienced players an advantage. And with ladder resets and many more competitive players, you wouldn't have the luxury of only going all-in on sure bets. You'd actually have to start betting on the closer matches and picking the right fighter as well in order to stay ahead. So even without multiple characters having the same exact name, there's definitely more than enough "skill" and random chance involved in the game for the experienced players.
August 26, 2013 at 4:21pm
Sorry for the multiple posts; Wish I could edit a previous one to add-on additional thoughts. But anyway, I make money on fights where there's only one version of each character all the time. For example, Oozaru vs Jimmy Lee just had like 1:4.6 odds, and that in my opinion is a hands-down no-contest fight. And to my knowledge there's only one iteration of both of those characters. When ladders reset, those types of fights (and even closer ones) will be where the veterans will have to compete to take and maintain the lead while ALSO betting high on sure wins. You can't really deny that even without multiple characters masquerading with the same name that the experienced players will still have more than enough of an advantage to pull ahead. All the multiple copies with identical names does is turn players away from the game, new and old alike, for the sake of a select few having an even bigger advantage based on esoteric knowledge. Even without traps and duplicates, those who SOLELY base their bets on stats will never be amongst the top players.
August 26, 2013 at 6:24pm
I still call the Sephiroth vs Mike Tyson fight the biggest bullshit and rigged. I saw that sephiroth fight anyother char and he goes down in 4 hits and has abyssmal AI.
September 09, 2013 at 12:13am
the thing is i think this fight is really explainable this sephiroth's hitbox was small enough that tyson had trouble hitting it, and because of how the stage is sephiroth's huge swing arc actually hit everytime because of it. that's just what I felt like happened things were just -perfect- for it to happen. i'd run it through on a mugen to see if it happens everytime out of interest but i don't have mugen